Driving and car insurance

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Jaimz
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Driving and car insurance

Postby Jaimz » Tue 26 Jul 2011 8:55 pm

Hi everyone

I'm new here although my KC isn't. Left eye is in need of a transplant but my right eye isn't too bad and is workable with glasses.

I was diagnosed in 2001 and was told by the optician that I was fine for driving. Each time I had a checkup I asked about driving and was told I was fine.

I stopped driving earlier this year and my wife is now my chauffeur which means we are spending more on fuel per week to transport me to work and back. I am getting some new glasses shortly to improve my right eye so I will be able to drive confortably again.

At this moment in time I have not informed either DVLA or my insurance company. :o

I want to do this before I start driving again but wanted to know what will happen to my insurance premium when I notify them? Does anyone have any experience of this and could tell me what I could expect?

Any help would be most greatfully recieved.

Cheers

Jaimz

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Anne Klepacz
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Re: Driving and car insurance

Postby Anne Klepacz » Wed 27 Jul 2011 8:52 am

Hi Jaimz and welcome to the forum,
You're quite right that you need to inform DVLA and your insurance company - otherwise, if you did have a prang your insurance would be invalid if you hadn't declared your KC. DVLA might call you to a test centre to check you can read a number plate at the required distance. I don't think anyone here has found their insurance going up as a result of telling their insurance company about their KC, but people with more recent experience will hopefully be able to confirm this.
I hope the new glasses do the trick and you'll be back driving again soon.
Anne

longhoc
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Re: Driving and car insurance

Postby longhoc » Wed 27 Jul 2011 11:13 am

Hi there Jaimz

Anne’s spot on in everything which is in her reply. You absolutely have to inform your insurer about your Keratoconus. (I’ve no expertise about the DVLA particularly but insurance is safer ground for me).

An insurance contract operates under a principle known as uberrima fides which is usually translated as “upmost good faith”. All parties have to make full disclose of anything which is known to be material to the policy – or likely to be or become material.

This means that if, for example, you need to wear glasses or contact lenses to achieve the legal minimum standard for driving specifically because of your Keratoconus, you must tell your insurer of this. They will then stipulate that you must wear your glasses/contact lenses while driving – and you have to, of course, comply with that for the insurance to be in force. It seems as though you are presently okay with glasses. It might be best to confirm definitely with your optometrist or consultant (if applicable) that you do indeed meet the legal requirement for driving with glasses alone. Apologies if you’ve already done that one !

All policies carry a standard clause saying that, basically, driving with glasses or contact lenses is not a “must notify” condition (so most people don’t need to do anything). However, your need for glasses or contact lenses is related to another factor (Keratoconus) so it’s unsafe to rely on the standard clause about glasses or contact lenses because that’s not the spirit of the agreement. The reason you need the glasses/contact lenses isn’t the “usual” one of standard long/short sightedness.

Its borderline, but my view would be that it wouldn’t hurt to advise your insurer that your left eye is being considered for a graft / transplant. Might be overdoing it so decide whether you’re better doing this than not because it – from what you’ve said – isn’t definite yet. However, once you’re actually on the waiting list or given a date for the procedure then you must tell your insurer of this (so they can consider what, if anything, they will need to be satisfied of by way of information about your sight post-graft).

Blimey, bet you’re really glad you asked now ... Don’t want to end up giving you cause for concern -- not nice to worry people when they've only just made their first posting ! Unfortunately I’ve heard of too many instances where people – almost always unintentionally – end up voiding their policy through non-disclosure. And for personal injury claims against you while driving, uninsured liability cannot be discharged – even through a bankruptcy. It literally will follow you to the grave until they’ve got the money out of you. You’ve got enough on your plate with Keratoconus without having to deal with that ! So please, tell the insurer everything, however trivial it seems.

The good news is that it’s unlikely to affect your premium massively. So long as your optometrist or consultant says you meet the driving standard sight test and you comply with whatever is mandated (e.g. glasses or contact lenses) the additional risk is marginal compared to other factors so you’ll probably not get your premium recalculated. (mine wasn’t)

Anything else you need to know, just ask.

Best wishes

Chris

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Anna Mason
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Re: Driving and car insurance

Postby Anna Mason » Wed 27 Jul 2011 3:04 pm

I have been driving for 16 years and I have never notified my insurance company I have KC I am short sighted so I wear Contact lenses I dont see the difference between that and a Shortsighted person who doesnt have KC driving with contact lenses I really dont see any difference.

longhoc
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Re: Driving and car insurance

Postby longhoc » Wed 27 Jul 2011 7:57 pm

Hi Anna

Your specific responsibility is to notify the DVLA, then await their advice on your contiuned fitness to drive. The DVLA's assessment that you are is what determines the validity (or not!) of cover continuing.

But what happens if you've not notified the DVLA of your Keratoconus or have only just notified them and are awating their confirmation ? Your optometrist will have advised that you meet the minimum standard of vision but that's not enough -- you need the DVLA notification too. What do you do during this "bit in the middle" while you're waiting to see what the DVLA says ?

The same applies for any event that should be included on a resubmitted DVLA V1 in Question 8 such as maybe crosslinking or -- especially -- a graft. During the time you're waiting-- even though you're able to meet the sight test requirements -- you still need the DVLA to respond with a decision if there's anything they consider should stop you driving. In that sort of situation you definintely should contact your insurer and obtain their express consent to continue driving while awaiting the DVLA's say-so.

In those cases -- such as what Jaimz described -- you really should contact your insurance provider first and only then drive if they formally agree to continue cover. The key question they will have to weigh up is whether they are happy to continue to cover you in the absence of a decision from the DVLA. They may well say "yes". But if they think "no" you cannot risk only finding out after you have to make a claim and it ends up being rejected.

For anyone else, the general advice is, if your condition has changed significantly enough to make you consider letting the DVLA know then -- if you do let the DVLA have details on the V1 -- you should inform you insurer too in order to make absolutely certain that they won't withdraw cover pending the DVLA's response.

If you've managed your Keratoconus for years and years without significant change either in the conditon or the treatment, then there's nothing to warrant completing a DVLA V1 and therefore nothing to tell your insurer about.

At I said in my origional reply "upmost good faith" is the principle. If you're in any doubt at all, you really must discuss it with your insurance provider. You cannot later say "oh, well, I wasn't sure so I thought I wouldn't bother then". No provider will ever critise you for calling them to disclose something they didn't in the end need to know. So why not be better safe than sorry ?

Cheers

Chris

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Anna Mason
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Re: Driving and car insurance

Postby Anna Mason » Thu 28 Jul 2011 7:59 am

Phew I just read the early part of this last night and stayed awake all night. Now I have read the rest I am ok again I think.

longhoc
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Keratoconus: Yes, I have KC
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Re: Driving and car insurance

Postby longhoc » Thu 28 Jul 2011 9:47 am

Oh, Anna, sorry, hate to have caused any alarm.

I tried to answer the origional question raised and also then give some more general advice on insurance. Result was a long post, but hey, when don't I do that ?!

Will try to boil it down into a simple check-list and actions for everyone's benefit:

1) Have you advised the DVLA in form V1/V1V of your diagnosis for Keratoconus ? The actual reporting requirement is for "reduced visual acuity" which, in anything but mild Keratoconus will almost certainly be present. If you don't believe you have "reduced visual acuity" then it is still worth explicitly asking your optometrist at your next vist whether in their opinion you should notify the DVLA. If you think that you do have "reduced visual acuity" please notify the DVLA as soon as you can. Here is the link http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... /DG_185878 There are two different forms, V1 for ordinary drivers, V1V for professional drivers. If yes, and the DVLA has not raised any queries then you're fine, although see 3) below.

2) If you believe you have "reduced visual acuity" but have you NOT advised the DVLA, are you still driving ? If yes, and you wish to continue driving PLEASE CONTACT YOUR INSURER STRAIGHT AWAY and advise them you need to notify the DVLA of a medical condition and seek their agreement to continue cover while the DVLA responds to your notification.

3) Even if you have already notified the DVLA, has the treatment for your Keratoconus changed in such as way as to cause you to consider the need to send in another V1 / V1V ? This is especially relevent for Q8. on the V1:
"Please give details of the treatment to all conditions you have told us about, including the name of any eye drops"
So, if you've had a graft, are using Dexamethasone, have developed a cataract or glaucoma etc. etc. -- particularly if your Keratoconus is bilateral -- you should think about informing the DVLA. If you're not sure, check with your optometrist or consultant if in their opinion they believe you should notify the DVLA. If you do need to re-advise the DVLA and you do wish to continue to drive, follow point 2) above.

Yes, it's all a right faff and a thorough nusience. But please everyone, the risks of not fulfilling your obligations simply are not worth it.

Best wishes all

Chris

Jaimz
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Posts: 17
Joined: Tue 26 Jul 2011 8:37 pm
Keratoconus: Yes, I have KC
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Location: Cheshire

Re: Driving and car insurance

Postby Jaimz » Thu 28 Jul 2011 11:28 am

Because I haven't informed DVLA or my insurers before now then can I get into trouble?

longhoc
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Keratoconus: Yes, I have KC
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Re: Driving and car insurance

Postby longhoc » Thu 28 Jul 2011 2:00 pm

Hi Jaimz

No, don't worry. It's all a bit of a moot point anyway, if you've not been involved in any accidents or made any claims, there's nothing at all to be gained by looking back retrospectively.

The system for medical notifications to the DVLA is that you're under a legal requirement to notify them of an advisable medical condition when you become aware of it. I'm assuming that up until now, you've not been given any specific advice from an optomertist or other clinician to notify the DVLA (it would put a different complexion on things if you had and then willfully ignored it !). I'm also assuming that you meet the legal minimum standard of vision for driving (with glasses or contact lenses if needed) and that you wear these when driving. If so, you've done everything you were expected to do and it is only once your condition deteriorated that you suspected you had to advise the DVLA because of the reduced visual acuity. As soon as you became aware of it, you acted promptly (or you will now act promptly :) )

Worth a seperate mention about the role of the Optometrist. I'd guess -- and it is only my guess -- that they would be expected as part of their duties to advise patients when they fail to meet the legal standard of vision for driving. But I don't think they're under any defined obligation to give advice and guidance about DVLA notification apart from that. Basically, they are there to deal with your eyes and not provide information on the law and driving. If we drive, it's up to us to know the law and to be aware of the legal requirements such as those for the minimum standard of vision and the need to notify the DVLA of medical conditions that we have to tell them about. If any optometrist knows more on this point, be very interested the learn about it.

As for insurers, there's no direct legal implications. The industry's stance (to the DVLA) is as follows:

The majority of the motor insurance industry does not request extensive medical information from its customers but relies on the fact that if DVLA has had disclosed to it a medical condition that should have been disclosed and has
subsequently issued a driving licence, the person concerned would meet the medical standards of fitness to drive.


In other words, they defer the whole thing to the DVLA. They rely on the need to disclose to the DVLA and the DVLA's subsequent assessment about whether they are satisfied to let you hold a licence. Of course, looking at this in reverse, if you fail to disclose to the DVLA and/or the DVLA then revokes your licence, you're driving without valid insurance because you need to hold a full licence -- which is an offence. But anyway, the same applies -- so long as you notifty the DVLA when you're supposed to that's all you can be expected to do.

The one grey area is what happens when you're in limbo, having notificed the DVLA but not had a decision. There, as I've suggested, it is a very good idea to talk to the insurer to make certain they are happy to continue cover while you're waiting. If they do revoke cover and you still wish to drive, then there are specialist insurance providers (who maintain teams of medical advisors) who you can ask for a quote from. It might cost more (because the provider is going to the trouble of assessing more complex medical underwriting) but they could be a useful stop-gap. Anyway, start off with your current insurer and go from there.

If there's any other factors involved that might complicate things that you've not mentioned or don't feel able to mention here, then you might need to obtain some legal advice which I'm not qualified to give. But if things are as you've detailed, like I said at the top, you've nothing at all to worry about.

Kind regards

Chris

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Anna Mason
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Re: Driving and car insurance

Postby Anna Mason » Thu 28 Jul 2011 2:19 pm

Thank you Chris.


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